HELL replied by kookookachoo @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:17:02 -0000

kookookachoo — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:17:02 -0000

Ah, the miracle of milkshakes with infinite refills! Will these not add any inches to the hips? That would be truly miraculous!

HELL replied by FiNiX @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:37:25 -0000

FiNiX — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:37:25 -0000

Yeah? Well FiNiXism offers free milkshakes with infinite refills, so there! HA!

HELL replied by ratboy @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:42 -0000

ratboy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:42 -0000

We’ve crossed the abyss of faith…would that the other great religions of the world might do as well…ratboyism offers a free slurpee with every new membership…FYI

HELL replied by FiNiX @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:19:06 -0000

FiNiX — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:19:06 -0000

Lol. Indeed. And they involve paper, too.

HELL replied by ratboy @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:16:17 -0000

ratboy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:16:17 -0000

The book of FiNiXism has much in common with the book of ratboyism…they both involve printing and ink…

HELL replied by FiNiX @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:13:11 -0000

FiNiX — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:13:11 -0000

The book of FiNiXism says reincarnation. Hmm.

HELL replied by ratboy @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:10:16 -0000

ratboy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:10:16 -0000

The book of ratboyism states that we all go to the same place when we die…

HELL replied by absoluteliquid @ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:50:00 -0000

absoluteliquid — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:50:00 -0000

I found this at http://www.wisechurch.com/topic39.html while surfing today and it was a real eye opener…

What Happens After Death?

Intro.
A. Much speculation and many ideas given to answer this question.
B. As with all questions, God’s word must be accepted above everything else.

I. Separation Of Body and Soul (Spirit). Jas. 2:26; Eccl. 12:7; Gen. 35:18
A. Spirit lives after death:
1. Lk. 20:38- God is not God of dead but of living. (Abraham, Issac, Jacob)
2. Lk. 16:19-31 – Rich man could see, hear, talk, plead, and remember.
3. Rev. 6:9,10- Knew why they were killed and blood had not been avenged.

II. We Do NOT Go To Heaven Or Hell At Death. Jn. 14:1-3; I Thess. 4:17; Acts 2:34.

III. We Go To Hades. “Hell” is the unfortunate translation in KJV.
A. “Hades” means unseen, unseen world, the abode of disembodied spirits.
B. It is the place where ALL dead go, even Christ. Acts 2:27,31.
1. Jesus told thief, he would be with Him in “paradise”. Lk. 23:43.
2. Upon the moment of His death, Jesus said, ”’Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”. V. 46
a. Stephen made similar statement. Acts 7:59.
3. Jesus did not go to Heaven. Jn. 20:17
4. Gates of Hell did not prevent Jesus from building the church. Mt. 16:18
C. Hades is divided into two places. Lk. 16
1. “Paradise” also called “Abraham’s bosom”. V. 22,23.
a. A place of comfort. V.25.
2. “Tartarus”- part of Hades where wicked go. 2 Pet. 2:4
a. A place of torment. Lk. 16:25
3. Both Lazarus and rich man were in Hades but in different states or places.
a. Between these two states was a “great gulf fixed”. V. 26
b. No passage permitted between the two places. V. 26
4. Righteous who die in the Lord are at rest (Rev. 14:13), but wicked are in torments: Both awaiting the resurrection (Jn. 5:28,29) and judgment (Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10).

IV. Another Meaning Of The Word “Hell”.
A. “Gehenna” – eternal punishment.
1. Described in:
a. Mt 25:41 – “everlasting fire”
b. Mk. 9:43-48 – “fire that never shall be quenched”
c. Rev. 20:10- “lake of fire and brimstone’” :14 – “lake of fire” ...”second death” 15 – “lake of fire”

Conclusion:
A. To help better understand “Hades”, let’s realize there are three different states of the human spirit (soul):
1. Spirit with the physical body – this is our existence on earth that ends in physical death. Jas. 2:26.
2. Spirit separated from the physical body – this begins at death and ends with resurrection. Hades is emptied of all it inhabitants. Rev. 20:13.
3. Spirit is reunited with resurrected spiritual body – this continues forever. 1 Cor. 15:44. Death and Hades is then destroyed. Rev. 20:14

HELL replied by PreteristView @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:56:07 -0000

PreteristView — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:56:07 -0000

Yes, I do type quickly…lol – There is no temple in Jerusalem. There is the footprint where the temple once stood. Its destruction marked the end of blood sacrifice for the atonement of sins.

If the temple was to be rebuilt, it would need a perfect red heifer to sacrifice according to Jewish custom (which there has been an ongoing search for one) and that, well…Would be reinstating blood sacrifice of which Christ was the OMEGA LAMB of GOD.

I don’t believe that GOD would allow that to take place, and since it must take place in order for the futurist belief to usher in the rapture – It might just explain why there hasn’t been a temple built in over 2000 years, because the prophecy has already been fulfilled.

HELL replied by kookookachoo @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:11:45 -0000

kookookachoo — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:11:45 -0000

You sure type quickly, thanks for the information, PV! There is currently no temple in Jerusalem? Are there ruins, I thought people still worshipped at the site? or something? I realize that there are synagogues. But why would it be that important, it would be a Jewish temple if rebuilt, right? Therefore, will not be re-built because now we have the Christian religion supplanting the Jewish one? Are the Jews like christians poor relations? (That one is a joke, son)

HELL replied by PreteristView @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:03:20 -0000

PreteristView — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:03:20 -0000

What is significant about it is it was the temple (HERODIAN just signifies it as the one mentioned) that Christ stood before and stated that its destruction would mark His return in Judgment. It was also prophecied that there would be no other temple built after that, and in over 2000 years there has not been. Mainly because, as historical attempts that have been recorded, have ended in death and tragedy.

I have always thought it interesting why there has not been a reconstructed temple built since 70 A.D. :O)

The Bible states in Scripture that Christ would be (and is) the final Temple.

HELL replied by kookookachoo @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:55:29 -0000

kookookachoo — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:55:29 -0000

What is so all-fired important about the temple being destroyed in 70 A.D. It’s been destroyed before. And what about Herod, everyone seemed to hate him anyway, at least the one that sent Christ back to Pilate to be condemned, (there was more than one, right?). Did one of the Herods build that temple, is it just called that because he was ruling at the time of it’s destruction? Were kings then responsible for the temple during their rule, such as Saul, David, Solomon in the OT. Didn’t other nations come in and destroy the temple back in the OT, also? Are we talking about a building? Or the “temple” of the church that is in the peoples hearts and minds. Please clarify and elucidate. Thanks!

HELL replied by Arandur @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:13:35 -0000

Arandur — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:13:35 -0000

Preterist, I haven’t studied this as in depth as you, but I’ve heard almost all of what you said before and I accept your view as one very possible one (I haven’t decided fully and would put myself in the Partial Preterist camp myself).

So you’re saying that there isn’t Hell as a place so much as it is that those who do not accept God and succumb to the second death by their own judgment Perish eternally (i.e. their souls are destroyed)?

Bulky: “If I still got sent to hell after that? Not such a loving god, after all. Again, I wouldn’t bother. I don’t approve of torture (by humans or by deities), and wouldn’t therefore want to worship such a god.”

Bulky, I’m glad you realize what you’ve chosen and that you accept the fact that God etc. does or doesn’t exist, but that you just haven’t been convinced that He does. I hope that, throughout your life, you continue to consider the possibility and keep your mind and heart open (after all, what could it cost you to just be open to the argument?). As for whether how Hell works and how you’ll be judged, I think most Christians recognize that your choice is made in this life, that whatever happens when we die, you had your “second chances” on earth. When you’re about to be given a sentence in a criminal trial, you don’t get the chance to say, “Oh, I’m sorry, I realize now that I was wrong, I shouldn’t have (fill in the blank), lets act as if it never happened.” The court and jury might truly sympathize, but you condemned yourself with your actions and must suffer the consequences. So it’s not that God is unmerciful or doesn’t love you, its you who chose not to love Him and chose instead, willingly, eternal life apart from Him. Whatever that is (true death/loss of existence, or an actual place), separation from the only thing that can ever make you truly happy is torment.

HELL replied by PreteristView @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:54:57 -0000

PreteristView — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:54:57 -0000

Wg6434,

If you look at the original root (Mark 9:43) is “Gehenna” as well – as I stated previously Revelation is the only place where the root meaning isn’t Gehenna, Sheol, the grave, etc.,

Gehenna, is a valley on the south and east of Jerusalem where they burned garbage and rotten diseased animals etc., and during the reign of Neron Caesar is where the Jews and believers were thrown into. It is believed that the reference “where the fire cannot be put out” was metaphoric/ethereal for their judgment would not be delayed or evaded, and to those that do not accept Christ the SECOND DEATH.

Just as the metaphoric language was used to describe the tongue as a fiery member ignited by Gehenna itself. If you read deeply into the Word you will notice the terms SECOND DEATH & PERISH. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life. And if you read about the one that is capable of throwing you into Gehenna has the power to kill the soul. Believers will not taste death, etc., The fire of hell is eternal, it is a reference to the finality of the judgment of the SECOND DEATH.

HELL replied by wg6434 @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:26:40 -0000

wg6434 — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:26:40 -0000

Sorry. rhat last was in reference to hell. Thanx for the definition. wg

HELL replied by wg6434 @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:25:00 -0000

wg6434 — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:25:00 -0000

Sir Preterist: Check out Mark 9:43 wg

HELL replied by PreteristView @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:20:25 -0000

PreteristView — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:20:25 -0000

There are different types of Preterists…Partial, Full, and Hyper….I am a full Preterist. Meaning that I believe that ALL Messianic prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled – have taken place.

HELL replied by wg6434 @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:17:12 -0000

wg6434 — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:17:12 -0000

what’s a preterist?

HELL replied by wg6434 @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:15:29 -0000

wg6434 — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:15:29 -0000

About hell, if every thing that comes into alignment with God is in heaven, then all that is in hell is the other stuff. Anger, bitterness hopelessness frustration, lust, etc. I don’t think it’s going to be a fun place, I have heard people say that when they get to hell theyre gonna party down with all ther’re homies.

HELL replied by PreteristView @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:48:26 -0000

PreteristView — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:48:26 -0000

If you do an original language study on what root words were translated into the English word, “hell” you find that it is referring to specifically Sheol, the grave, and Gehenna throughout either Hebraic, Aramaic, and Greek. The only time hell is translated specifically as a place of torment/fire is in Revelation and it applies specifically to the fallen league and satan himself.

Sheol was a place of the dead waiting resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ.
Gehenna was a physical place during the reign of Neron Caesar where Jews and believers were thrown into a fire in Jerusalem that is now a garden.
Hell, is only mentioned in Revelation as an eternal place where satan will be cast with his fallen league.

Since Preterists believe that the Judgment occurred in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the Herodian temple – and the Messianic prophecies have been fulfilled…When an individual dies he/she is instantaneously transformed according to their own Judgment and into the presence of God.

HELL replied by BulkyMonster @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:13:59 -0000

BulkyMonster — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:13:59 -0000

“And what if Hell isn’t what you perceive it to be, but rather merely the state of living eternally in rejection of a God who loves you, and the only way you can ever truly find happiness and peace is if you accept Him and His love? If you can’t be happy without Him, then when you reject Him, you cast yourself into Hell. And if when we die we exist in an eternal state outside of the time we’re used to, then the consequences of your rejection of God results in you left eternally unsatisfied, eternally empty, because you refused the only thing that could make you happy.

I get sad and depressed just thinking about what that must be like.”

First post, I signed up just to answer this.

Don’t be sad and depressed! I’m an atheist. Now that I’ve found my own truth, I do feel absolutely peaceful and happy. I’ve made a point of rejecting God – not to offend anyone, but that’s what I did. I thought I was a Christian before but it never sat well with me. Now, I appreciate life for its ephemerality, and the universe for the senselessness of its beauty. I’m more content and appreciative than you would probably think, and much more so than I ever was in church :)

I think that what counts is answering life’s questions to one’s own satisfaction, and that we make our own peace. As for hell… I don’t believe it exists.

And yes, I accept that, if there is a god and I’m wrong, I would be sent there. Oh well. I can’t force myself to believe something just to avoid something else I don’t believe, if that makes any sense. I simply can’t believe there is a god, a heaven, a hell, a devil, angels, demons, or anything of the sort. Merely saying “oh, I don’t want to be punished eternally, so I believe!” isn’t going to fool any omniscient beings. So say I die and am standing there for judgement… god asks me why I should be let into heaven. I’d shrug and ask him/her/it where my loved ones are. If they’re not in heaven, I wouldn’t even bother defending myself. And if they were, I’d be genuinely sorry for not believing, genuinely grateful, and I think that this loving god described by many Christians would know that I was sincere. If I still got sent to hell after that? Not such a loving god, after all. Again, I wouldn’t bother. I don’t approve of torture (by humans or by deities), and wouldn’t therefore want to worship such a god.

HELL replied by ratboy @ Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:26:58 -0000

ratboy — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:26:58 -0000

Nahhh…you do have that sort of mind…at least in this site…

HELL replied by FiNiX @ Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:18:44 -0000

FiNiX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:18:44 -0000

“It will all be made clear to you FiNiX in the fullness of time…For you have an enquiring mind…”

Maybe. We’ll see. ^^

HELL replied by ratboy @ Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:16:41 -0000

ratboy — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:16:41 -0000

It will all be made clear to you FiNiX in the fullness of time…For you have an enquiring mind…

HELL replied by FiNiX @ Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:34:38 -0000

FiNiX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:34:38 -0000

“Come on, you can’t claim ignorance. You know the truth but reject it.”

But I don’t think that it’s the truth, and I don’t think that it isn’t the truth. I’m in limbo.

What would you describe that as?

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