Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by LdsGal202 @ Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:59:59 -0000

LdsGal202 — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:59:59 -0000

hahaha, that’s true about christ. I’m sure he would of too ;)))

Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by kookookachoo @ Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:54:15 -0000

kookookachoo — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:54:15 -0000

Hi BenjaminB!

Thank you for joining GSLU website! I see your profile, but why not also introduce yourself in the Introduction forum http://godstilllovesus.org/forums/7/topics/20

We are glad that you’re here!

Best regards,
Kookoo

Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by BenjaminB @ Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:01:54 -0000

BenjaminB — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:01:54 -0000

Personally, I think that, religiously, it doesn’t make a difference. Many martyred saints in the past were burned at the stake and therefore cremated. It doesn’t make one bit of difference what state our body will be in when Christ returns. We were created from dust and to the dust we return. Plus Christ will give us new bodies when reach heaven so the state of our old one doesn’t matter. But neither of you really were arguing that point. I was just puting in my two-piece so you see where i am coming from.
I think the both pts for burial and cremation were good. I think that either option would be fine with me. Burial benefit man because it helps people remember. Joshua erected many monuments throughout Judges to help man remember what God had done in the past for Israel. Cremation on the other hand benefits the earth which we were called to be stewards of by God.
The only person who absolutely might have a problem religiously with being cremated would have to be Jesus… but I think he might worked around it… :)

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by kookookachoo @ Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:20:18 -0000

kookookachoo — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:20:18 -0000

ellistopher wrote:

hey, if you have an instant messanger, it would make things a lot easier lol i would love to the majority of your questions, some you will have to figure out for yourself…

Gotta stop you right there before you reveal personal information of your own, Chris! We (and you, for your own protection) must be extremely careful on this website. it is a completely open site. Lurkers (non-members) can view the entire site, including all posts, just can’t interact with us in the forums, plus a few other things, like I dun think they can view our profiles and such. But, basically, personal information should not be put into the forums. As you tour our site, you will notice that some of our conversations tend to piss people off and we also don’t mind pissing off each other, either. Trust me, you dun want some person who isn’t even a member reading something you said, getting angry, and then finding your email address, or your website. I’m sure you understand.

That said, I’m a moderator here, as I’m sure you know. I’m the only one that’s been on lately, so have decided to put my email in my profile (give me a few hours, it’s a busy day). I’m only putting it there so that everyone here knows that it’s there, too. That way, you all will have an alternate way to contact me besides through the forums. Chris, you may use it to contact me on my yahoo IM, I will add you as a friend, but be warned, I dun use it a whole bunch. My boyfriend decided that I just had to have it, so he signed me up for it. Feel free to contact me there, though, i promise to get back.

If you or anyone has an emergency here, or just want to say something or chat, post in the monthly thread http://godstilllovesus.org/forums/6/topics/1703 That will be the quickest way for you to get hold of me as I monitor that topic.

Chris, please continue to look around our site. You may find all sorts of fun things that you’d like to comment upon. Let me have some time to look at some of these links in your reply above, and see how to reply myself, and I will get back to you. I have a very heavy workload right now, as I’m sure you do, too, what with your studies and all. It is so nice to have you here, thank you for joining GSLU!

All the best,
Ken

P.S. To view a member’s profile, click on their name. Most profiles here are pretty barren, though…lol

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by ellistopher @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:22:23 -0000

ellistopher — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:22:23 -0000

Koo,

thanks for your reply :) i am sure many of the ancient people posed the same question, “why is he called a prophet?” i am sure the people in Noah’s days are regretting they did not listen. And about the language difference, its actually a lot better in English lol. Jacob was a prophet from the americas, he was the son of Lehi, also a prophet (called during the same time as his contemporaries i.. jeremiah, daniel, etc… those around 600 bc.) Like hebrews 5:4 states: “And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.” So not everyone is a prophet, God has to call you.

I am assuming (which is generally a bad thing) that you have not had the chance to read the book of mormon… i would invite you to do so, i am sure you will find it interesting, it will answer a lot of your questions, and we will see how much tearing you will actually want to do :)

Your bit about addicing to Christian scripture… who says that the scriptures are closed ? that there cant be more given to us from the heavens? Is not God “the same yesterday, today, and forever”? if he talked to his children then, why not know? i refer you to the following link to read up more on the subject… http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid…

Of course Joseph Smith was exposed to sin, he was not perfect, he was not out of the ordinary, he was called of god… something extraordinary… I have also studied his life extensively, and you tend to favor those things you study correct? but I also heard a lot of bad stuff (lies) about him so i will leave that decision up to you… but you can determine what type of person Joseph Smith was by reading the book he translated by the power of God, The Book of Mormon… here is the link as well, the introduction would be a good place to start :) http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

hey, if you have an instant messanger, it would make things a lot easier lol i would love to the majority of your questions, some you will have to figure out for yourself…

So I'm feeling a bit too inspired lately... replied by LdsGal202 @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:50:56 -0000

LdsGal202 — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:50:56 -0000

Reading the thread on why people use off-color language. That was intresting BTW. hahah! Anywhoo, I’m just wondering where “bad words” came from… I mean words are words. I can make up a word right now and say its bad. Who the crap decided certain words are bad? Thats really stupid. How does the allteration of 4 letters make the words crap okay but sh*t vulgar & untasteful? STUPID. xP

Phycics replied by LdsGal202 @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:34:15 -0000

LdsGal202 — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:34:15 -0000

I believe that some people are born w/ the gift to know peoples past,future,present, & what not…I have a friend who has the gift of dreams. I’m using her as an example because being phycic doesn’t necessarily mean that you just know things out of the blue. The information can come from different resources wether it be a strong impression,dreams,getting to know a person, etc. As for my friend she’s a dreamer. An example of her gift is that one time she had a dream about a girl, that she was chosen to do a special job for God. And she got the impression that she had to tell the girls father. As of now idk if that information is true, but I guess only the time will tell. And well I really do believe that SOME people have these gifts. Obviously Aunt Cloe doesn’t.lol! idk if you guys have ever seen her TV commercials? Anywhoo…...thoughts :)))

Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by LdsGal202 @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:15:42 -0000

LdsGal202 — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:15:42 -0000

Yeah I could see why you’de like a grave, I mean it’s nice to go visit the deceiced. I visit my grandmothers grave almost weekly. But we’re living in a fast paced world. Especially being from South FL it’s just hectic. I go to the cemetary and see graves literally sinking in the ground covered in grass cause of the rain & stuff. And people just neglect them & don’t have time. I don’t want to be forgotten, so thats why I choose cremation as of now. I’ll probably end up changing my mind in the future…lol :)))

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by LdsGal202 @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:11:04 -0000

LdsGal202 — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:11:04 -0000

*the books you’re takling about,moses,jacob,moroni,D&C, are found in the book of mormon,pearl of great price, & D&C is its own book. There for the most part all combined into one book for convenience…I think I’ve mentioned that b4 somewhere.

Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by kookookachoo @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:00:06 -0000

kookookachoo — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:00:06 -0000

OK, gal, I will! I like the idea of being buried myself. Most of my friends and family that have passed on are buried, some have been cremated, yet have their ashes buried in a grave (you’d be surprised at how many people that are cremated have gravesites, since you already own the gravesite, what an ideal place to fling the urn into! lol) No need to pay for a vault, either, in that case. And some have been cremated with ashes scattered, placed in mausoleums or placed privately. My friend Tom’s ashes are still in an urn on the top shelf in the front hall closet of his family home after 13 years (!) You can do a lot of things with the ashes, but a whole body pretty much has to be buried…lol

My best friend Ned died on July 4th in 1996. Every few years, we have a picnic at his grave on that date. I like to visit the graves of my friends and family. So, I think that I would like to have a grave that my friends could visit, a nice shade tree for them to sit beneath so they can talk to me (Hey! I talk to my friends and family when I visit their graves, OUT LOUD, too! I don’t care much about appearances, you know…)

From your link, your faith doesn’t seem to have a prohibition on cremation, just not something most of them want to do, though. You should do whatever you like, my dear, I really have no preference either way except for what I would like for myself. I’ll let you know where I’m at so you can come and talk to me, too, OK? Great topic, great post, gal! Thank you, as always! Love, Koo

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by kookookachoo @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:15:17 -0000

kookookachoo — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:15:17 -0000

ellistopher wrote:
>well ken, i would love to chat with you… the reason i say hardcore is because i am really passionate about my religion, more so than others… you know that in every religion you have a spectrum of different levels of enthusiasm. I consider myself to be one the one end of the spectrum, thats all :) i would suggest reading this talk by one of our prophets… its very straight forward and i have shared it many times with other people while on my mission in chile, its called absolute truth. I’m sure you will enjoy it. http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6169

About my mission, yes i did put my life on hold for two years… family, school, job, girls, all that… and invited people to come unto christ by following his teachings. We did a lot of proselyting efforts which is a lot easier in chile than in miami lol and it was the greatest two years of my life. and yes, ldsgal202 is awesome isnt she? she rocks my world

OK, Chris, read it. An absolute truth to him appears to be, why, anything that he SAYS is an absolute truth. Not very convincing… Why is he called a prophet? I know the basics about prophets, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and so forth. Did the folks in Chile read it in English? Maybe it comes out better in another language? Jacob is on his list of prophets, but not on mine.

I pretty much have my life’s work cut out for me just refuting the King James version of the Bible and people’s mistaken beliefs of it. Table of contents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_of_t… . Do not bring the Apochrypha into this, else will have to send out the assassins! lol

I am not familiar with his references, for example, Book of Moses, Jacob, Moroni, D & C? I guess I can’t just mess with Christian scriptures anymore, not when people have added so many more holy books to the lists.

So, if there is a Mormon belief in the Christian scriptures (somewhat), why is the “youthful prophet” (Mr. Smith?) not been exposed to sinful contaminants? Christians (and Jews?) hold that all men are born in sin. Mr. Smith is a holy person and not sinful? Kinda like the pope? (Many popes were very sinful, though) I realize that Mr. Kimball is talking to a captive audience of believers who KNOW the subject at hand, but I am not familiar with this subject, thus all of the questions, Chris.

I think I’ve given you enough work for now, Chris. And we haven’t even gotten to anything from your first post yet about our Mr. Smith. Trust me, my friend, we WILL. Would appreciate some reference to these new holy books such as Moses and Jacob. Would like to get a feel for them before I tear them apart… lol

Cremation:dun dun dun! replied by LdsGal202 @ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:22:08 -0000

LdsGal202 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:22:08 -0000

I’ve been looking into this topic a lot lately, NOT because I think I’m going to die anytime soon,lol. But because I want to be cremated & people were telling me that the LDS church doesn’t believe in that. I’ve actually heard people say that the reason is because It’d be harder to resurrect ashes then bones. I think that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. How can God, the creator of the universe & all mankind, have trouble with restoring our bodies whether it be dried bone fragments or whole bones? Whoever believes in God and agrees with that is a hypocrite. I had never heard this before in my life so I decided to look into it. Cremation, throughout the centuries, has had a lot of spiritual meanings to it & is a common costum by buddhist,hindu’s, & jainist. They believe that burning the body by fire cleans the soul. That’s just one example I find intresting…

The reason I want to be cremated is firstly because of the environmental impact it has. I’m a nature freak and burial is known as a source of certain environmental contaminents.Embalming fluids, for example, are known to contaminate groundwater with mercury, arsenic and formaldehyde. Yet another environmental concern, of sorts, is that traditional burial takes up a great deal of space. In a traditional burial the body is buried in a casket made from a variety of materials. In America the casket is often placed inside a concrete vault or liner before burial in the ground. While individually this may not take much room, combined with other burials it can over time cause serious space concerns. Many cemeteries, particularly in Japan and Europe as well as those in larger cities, have run out, or are starting to run out, of permanent space. In Tokyo, for example, traditional burial plots are extremely scarce and expensive,] and in London, a space crisis led Harriet Harman to propose re-opening old graves for “double-decker” burials.However, there is a growing body of research that indicates cremation has a significant impact on the environment as well. On the other hand, the major emissions from crematories are: nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, particulate matter, mercury, hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride, NMVOCs, and other heavy metals, in addition to Persistent Organic Pollutants .According to the United Nations Environment Programme report on POP Emission Inventory Guidebook, emissions from crematoria contribute 0.2% of the global emission of dioxins.

Secondly I agree with this chick:
All of us need to realize that there are Latter-day Saints around the world who prefer cremation to burial. Here, for example, is the view of a young Japanese Latter-day Saint, a returned missionary who is now at BYU, a top student and respected Church member.

“In Japan we often cremate the remains of our dead and I definitely feel that this practice is cleaner than burying someone’s dead body under the ground. After cremation only dust and some small bones remain. But just imagine the decay of dead bodies that people put under the ground for the worms and bacteria to eventually take care of. That seems very unclean to me. It is probably a matter of how I was raised. But after the spirit is gone, the body is lifeless material. This material will come back in the resurrection no matter whether you cremate it or bury it underground. So far as Church doctrines are concerned, I don’t see anything wrong with cremation. I would rather see cleanliness for the living than sentimental feeling for the dead.”

Also something really cool I found out is that you can get cremated & get your “ashes” compressed into a diamond. And they can put that dimond on a ring or w/e you want. I think that’s sick! Anywhoo, tell me your thoughts yall :)))

(http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid…)

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by LdsGal202 @ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:38:55 -0000

LdsGal202 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:38:55 -0000

hahaha! brother Joe, I’m diggin’ the nickname. I love arguing theology too, although I don’t know much, I know enough though & I do my hw. Next time you invite the missionaries over give em’ some food will ya? Poor fellas are out all day xDDD

Critique my philosophical theory! replied by Satolkin @ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:21:33 -0000

Satolkin — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:21:33 -0000

ellistopher wrote:>”Wouldn’t God create only perfect things, things exactly like himself in every way? ... A God great enough to support all of life must necessarily create me as great, or else I’m forced to laugh and point at the illegitimacy of this conception of God.” God didnt create you perfectly… but he created you with the ability to become perfect…

Yes, yes, and yes. Perfection isn’t about what you are now, it’s about potentiality.
As to Stinky’s proof of the existence of G-d: look at a leaf. Or a wave crashing. Or, hell, two assholes arguing about nothing. It’s all about repeatable patterns, predictable, sometimes dumb, but it’s a pattern.

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by Satolkin @ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:15:35 -0000

Satolkin — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:15:35 -0000

Greetings, Ell.
Not LDS myself, but I know enough Mormons and have extensively traveled Utah enough to have developed a serious respect for their beliefs, and how those beliefs manifest in their approach to life, ethics, child- raising, etc..

On top of that, Joseph Smith was a fellow Bro. Mason, a member of Navoo Lodge in IL, so I just refer to him as Brother Joe.
A prophet? Sure. Many of the members of our Order have been such. One thing worth a mention is that he grew up in an area and at a time when folk magic was prevalent, and he was a practitoner. That, and a very, very solid grounding in Hebrew Temple tradition is, IMO, what gives the LDS Church that certain sort of esoteric “something” that most faiths are lacking.

Having said that, stick around. I love arguing theology, and in real, non- internet life, I often invite the visiting Elders in to do so. I usually win the argument, BTW. Be forewarned. :D

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by LdsGal202 @ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:46:08 -0000

LdsGal202 — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:46:08 -0000

“Ehem!” Well I’m flattered, everyones saying such nice things about me :))) But back to the subject at hand, ofcourse I’de like to be a part of this conversation! Like ellistopher said, every relgion is the same when it comes to being “hardcore” as you guys have put it. lol. Some are more commited than others. For ex: orthodox jews-they have the long beards,curly Q’s, & that funny hat. That’s just the physical aspect on how they show their comitment. Along w/ muslims. I have tons of friends who don’t wear the vail on there head cause there not so religious. Mormonism is the same.

I categrize it into 3 diffrent groups. You have faithful members, who do all in there power to do whats right, go to church on sunday, read & pray daily, have Family Home Evening, go to temple,keep the word of wisdom etc. the list goes on. Then theres what we call Sunday Mormons. Those who just attend the sunday meetings & do enough to get by. But don’t really get out of there way to strive for perfection. Then there’s just plain inactive members. Those who stop coming to church all together.

As for the mission part of the question I’ll let E take the stage w/ that, since he’s got the experience. But I’de like to add that I want to go on my mission someday.

Florida is pretty much the way you said it Koo. Past weeks have been rain all day. Ofcourse the rainbow is a great treat after the hideousness of the storm passes. I’ve never been in a blizzard, I guess they suck cause you don’t know when there coming & if you’re driving I hear it can get pretty dangerous. And you’re welcome to polk any fun koo, you know I won’t take it to heart :)))

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by ellistopher @ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:25:26 -0000

ellistopher — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:25:26 -0000

well ken, i would love to chat with you… the reason i say hardcore is because i am really passionate about my religion, more so than others… you know that in every religion you have a spectrum of different levels of enthusiasm. I consider myself to be one the one end of the spectrum, thats all :) i would suggest reading this talk by one of our prophets… its very straight forward and i have shared it many times with other people while on my mission in chile, its called absolute truth. I’m sure you will enjoy it. http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6169

About my mission, yes i did put my life on hold for two years… family, school, job, girls, all that… and invited people to come unto christ by following his teachings. We did a lot of proselyting efforts which is a lot easier in chile than in miami lol and it was the greatest two years of my life. and yes, ldsgal202 is awesome isnt she? she rocks my world

Critique my philosophical theory! replied by kookookachoo @ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:13:13 -0000

kookookachoo — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:13:13 -0000

OK, didn’t reply to this when I saw it this summer, just figured that stinky had visited the candy dish once too many times lately. I don’t think there’s much meat here, guys. Why human beings need to rationalize everything this way, I can’t imagine. It’s like, I am the most wonderful thing there is, I can’t have just appeared here, something even greater than I am must have made me and put me into this situation so that is all that I would think about all the time. Computers do that sometimes, an endless loop… Good lord, get a life! Are you on drugs?!!? I am praying that you are… If you want me to get esoteric, too, pass some over this way…

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by kookookachoo @ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 05:53:11 -0000

kookookachoo — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 05:53:11 -0000

Well, ellistopher, not much comment except a woot woot from gal so far, and she deserves it, she is a heckuva good person, I enjoy her company very much! Thank you for introducing yourself in our Introduction forum. From that, I see that you recently returned from a two year mission to Chile. Are you also from Florida, too, or are you just studying there? If you are from Florida, I can see why you would miss the rain since in my experience, it rains in Florida almost daily. Don’t get me wrong, I love rain, especially a sunshower with a lovely rainbow thereafter, VERY common in Florida. I live in Wisconsin. It’s very green here, too, most of the year, plus there are evergreens when our deciduous trees are leafless. And lots of moisture, rain, snow, ice, hail, fog, we got it all. You can keep the hurricanes, buddy, blizzards are bad enough! Of course, that lush live turf at Lambeau all year long kinda keeps us in green year round, especially when the Pack wins a Super Bowl!

Anyway, Chris, I’d like to hear more about your mission before we start dissecting some of your other statements above. This “mission” apparently meant putting your life on hold for two years? In your profile, you say that you are a hardcore member of your faith. Does your faith have other members that are not as hardcore? In the Christian religions, it seems to me that the fundamentalist sects are hardcore, if indeed you can put a word such as hardcore toward religion, which of course, you did! (lol) So maybe you could explain that, too?

I’ve been refuting religions nearly all of my adult life. I am interested in religion as a subject of discussion, but not interested in being or becoming religious. I’ve been a heathen since my teens and that ain’t gonna change anytime soon. I do urge you to take a tour of the site, see my Walter Cronkite imitations (“And that’s the way it is…”) and look at some of my other heathen doggerel as well. While we’ve had some discussions about your faith before on the site, I mostly stayed out of it because I find some of it so humorous there is a temptation to make fun, which I didn’t want to do. I think I’ve gotten over that temptation now and would love to discuss it with you and LDSGal, too, if she wants to.

If you’re interested in such discussion, please continue to post here. I’ll keep an eye out for a reply and hope that we will not interfere too much with your studies.

All forums are open here, none are archived or locked at this time.(EDIT 10/10/08 I HAVE JUST LOCKED A FORUM FOR THE FIRST TIME) If you see a subject you wanna talk about, make a comment at that forum. Some of them are rather dusty, though! (lol) We talk about a lot of stuff that’s not related to religion, it’s not a religious site, really. I sincerely hope that you will like it here and thank you for joining GSLU! We have this whole website which has been given to us, it’s members, to take where we want. Please take a good look around and let’s talk! I’m itching to reply to your comments above, but would like to hear from you first to make sure you are serious. People sometimes come here and don’t return, so I tend to give it some time nowadays, in these latter days, oh, just can’t resist… get back to me… regards, Ken (kookoo)

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by LdsGal202 @ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:34:07 -0000

LdsGal202 — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:34:07 -0000

aw your sweet! thanks ken darlin’ :)))

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by kookookachoo @ Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:25:30 -0000

kookookachoo — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:25:30 -0000

LdsGal202 wrote:
>yes! I’ve brought one to the fold! KUDOS FOR ME! I believe thats an extra 10 cool points…making my total 20 :)))

You’ve got a lot more than that, gal, at least in my book, sweetheart!

Love, Ken

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by LdsGal202 @ Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:53:05 -0000

LdsGal202 — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:53:05 -0000

yes! I’ve brought one to the fold! KUDOS FOR ME! I believe thats an extra 10 cool points…making my total 20 :)))

Critique my philosophical theory! replied by ellistopher @ Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:53:41 -0000

ellistopher — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:53:41 -0000

“Wouldn’t God create only perfect things, things exactly like himself in every way? ... A God great enough to support all of life must necessarily create me as great, or else I’m forced to laugh and point at the illegitimacy of this conception of God.”

God didnt create you perfectly… but he created you with the ability to become perfect… Said Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Its gonna take some work my friend, but you cant do it alone, and no matter your best efforts, you will always fall short… there is song by relient k that says “the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair” :) just do your best, and God will do the rest, he doesnt expect you to do more, but shouldnt try do any less than that either

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by kookookachoo @ Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:34:30 -0000

kookookachoo — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:34:30 -0000

Good Day to you ellistopher!

Thank you for joining God Still Loves Us (GSLU) Why not tell us a bit more about yourself in our Introduction forum? http://godstilllovesus.org/forums/7/topics/20 You have started the ball rolling on a very interesting topic. I am going to reserve comment for now, leaving the topic open for responses from others first. I hope you like it here! Warmest welcome! -Kookoo

Joseph Smith- Why? replied by ellistopher @ Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:13:20 -0000

ellistopher — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:13:20 -0000

Hey Guys (and Gals)

I have seen some talk about mormons, and I always find a great question when people ask “Why do the mormons believe in Joseph Smith?”. Its a valid question and I hope to be able to explain why our Heavenly Father had to call such a person to be a prophet. Just as it says in Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” God has always called prophets, from adam, enoch, abraham, moses, isaiah, daniel, jeremiah, and malachi (to name a few)... these prophets had a mission, to prepare God’s children to return to his presence. Thats Gods whole purpose for us too… Just like he said to moses “For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” (Moses 1:39). God follows patterns in order for us to avoid deception. His teachings are always based on truth, his commandments are a guide, and his love is constant and infinite. He wants all of us to come back to live with him. In order for us to do that however, we must do our part. We must fufill the commandments and do our best to be like our savior Jesus Christ. Now i know that our actions alone cannot save us, our own good, isnt good enough. We need something more, thats where grace comes. As a book of mormon prophet once stated: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:26) We need Christs Grace in order to be able go back to live with our Heavenly Father. So how does this tie into Joseph Smith? Dont a lot of other religions teach the same thing?

A lot of people dont even know what happened to joseph smith. He was a 14 year old boy with a lot of questions in the early 1800’s. In 1820, he found himself in the midst of “a war of tumult and opinions”. There were many religious parties at the time. Everyone claimed to have the truth, as they do today, and this produced some confusion in the boy, The religious teachers taught from the scriptures but their individual interpretations were so different that it produced even more confusion (as it does today as well). Joseph went to the scriptures for answers and came to a verse in the book of James, first chapter, fifth verse which reads: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.” This passage of scripture filled Joseph’s whole body with an emotion so strong. It was the answer to his problems. Joseph wanted to know which church he should join because he wanted to obey the commandments (John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.). Joseph understood that if he needed wisdom, he needed to ask God, the fountain of all truth and righteousness. He had complete faith that his Heavenly Father would answer him.

So one day in the spring of 1820, Joseph went to a grove of trees near his house in upstate New York. He went to the his Heavenly Father in humble prayer in order to find out which church to join. While praying, Joseph Smith had a marvelous experience. In his words he said: ” I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me…When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!”

God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ, appeared to the young man. “My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.” And he received his answer: none of them. The Church that Christ had established “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (Ephesians 2:20) had been corrupted during a time known as the apostasy. Apostasy is basically a falling away from the truth. When it became general among God’s children, it was known as the great apostasy. The prophets and apostles knew this was going to happen after Christ’s death. It was foretold in Old testament times, and even in the New Testament. For example in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 when the church members asked about the Second coming, (because many thought it was close) “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first.” Paul knew that the church was going to be corrupted, that the doctrines were going to be changed, and that priesthood authority (gods power he on earth) was going to be lost. As the prophet Amos also stated “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” They were not going to be able to find the Word of the Lord because it was going to be taken away. That is what is called the Apostasy. It is fact that it happened. God needed to restore his church again, he needed to restore the authority that was lost, he needed to restore the truth. Thats why he called Joseph Smith to be his prophet in these latter days.

I know that Heavenly Father loves us, so much, more than we can all comprehend… his love “endureth forever”. I know Jesus Christ is our Savior, that he died for you and me, and showed us the way. “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” He, in his infinite mercy and love has once again called a prophet. That prophet is Joseph Smith. Today we are all led by a prophet of God, Thomas S. Monson. Now you dont have have to take my word for it (and i do not expect you to either). The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a second wintess of the validity of Christ’s Mission and divinity and a proof to the world that Joseph was in fact a prophet of God. You can know if the book of mormon is true by following the promise found in the Book of Mormon: “ Behold, I would exhort (invite) you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.”

all you have to do is read and pray about it with the intent on acting on your response. We all know that God does answer our prayers. He will answer you if you ask in faith if you have that desire to know if its true or not. I have done this “test” and I know that its true. I love the book of mormon, i have read it many times in more than one language and each time i read it, my conviction, or testimony, is strengthened that truly our Heavenly Father loves us, that Jesus is the Christ, and that his church was restored in these latter days through the prophet Joseph.

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