I think that if there was a “Bible Type II” reprinted today it would be much different then what was given to the farmers, fishers, and warriors of the past. You must always keep this in mind. The bible is not the only word of god don’t let other sinners tell you this to be true. That is that “rule with the iron fist” mentality that was adopted by the roman catholics of the past (Key word: ROMAN), but I believe that Children of God’s understanding of the world is far greater now. So you all should know that the evangelistic belief that the bible should be taken literally is most likely foolish. Ask yourself: How far were we in science and technology when the bible was printed? Exactly. Why wouldn’t God give us these sciences? Because then it wouldn’t be a test of faith. For he is looking for disciples just as he did when he was embodied in human flesh(Christ) so we as disciples can move on to the next step. Christianity is very real and that is why it had such a blitzkrieg effect on the world (No pun). And that is why it is pushed so hard on non-believers.

Message to Non-Believers: Don’t let other sinners turn you off from Christianity. You must find your own faith and balance and you will. Research before you shutout. I know in this day and age it is so damn cool to be rebellious and emo to be different but, if this many people are seeing something there must be some substance. For at one time I was a blasphemer. Now I have god. You don’t even have to tell any of your friends if they think it isn’t “cool”. Just hop on wiki and take a look at all scriptures. Heck, don’t even start with the bible try the Koran first. The story of Christ is even in the Koran. You must be open minded friends. Once you have researched all religions keeping in mind that Christ is your messiah(Just to be safe). The connections you will find will be mind-blowing. Remember the name you call on when that killer, robber, or rapist puts that snub nose to your dome and is about to pull the trigger.. If it ain’t momma it is probably God. By that time it will be too late.

“Christianity is very real and that is why it had such a blitzkrieg effect on the world.”

We don’t know if it is real or not. Please, I beg of you, don’t treat belief as you would fact.

“That is why it is pushed so hard on non-believers.”

Please don’t “push christianity so hard” on non-believers like myself.

I don’t know if that’s what you’re implying or not, but I know that that shouldn’t be done.

The fact is, the pushy-ness of many factions of christianity is part of what puts most non-believers off.

If you want to impress a non-believer, don’t push. Speak to him/her in logical sense, – remembering that the bible is nothing more than a book, – and treat him/her as an equal.

“Don’t let other sinners turn you off from Christianity.”

Do the sinners in question seem credible to you? Because I will always take the opinions of those whom I trust into consideration.

“You must find your own faith and balance and you will.”

I may well not find one, and that’s fine with me.

“I know in this day and age it is so damn cool to be rebellious and emo to be different but, if this many people are seeing something there must be some substance.”

No offense, but I think that’s slightly foolish thinking. Just because so many people believe it, that does not make it true.

There is very little evidence for or against christianity. Until something definite arises, I will keep my mind open to to the possibilities of both it’s existance and it’s non-existance.

“The connections you will find will be mind-blowing.”

Connections? You must remeber, the stories described in the bible traveled far and wide from person to person for a long time before being written down.

It shouldn’t seem so surprising that it can be found in more than one place.

“We don’t know if it is real or not. Please, I beg of you, don’t treat belief as you would fact.”

Key Word: FAITH

“Please don’t “push christianity so hard” on non-believers like myself.”

If you take a look a have a separate section for the non-beleivers

“I don’t know if that’s what you’re implying or not, but I know that that shouldn’t be done.”

How do you know sir? You telling me that I cannot push fact and I haven’t was feeding into the whole idea. I was simply trying to advocate. This statement is simply evidence of lack of research.

“The fact is, the pushy-ness of many factions of christianity is part of what puts most non-believers off.
If you want to impress a non-believer, don’t push. Speak to him/her in logical sense, – remembering that the bible is nothing more than a book, – and treat him/her as an equal.”

I am not trying to impress anyone. I look for no gratitude from any human. I have given you my message. And I am very humble don’t categorize me with the evangelists. For Jibrael’s beliefs are very different.

“Do the sinners in question seem credible to you? Because I will always take the opinions of those whom I trust into consideration.”

It isn’t about the credibility of sinners.. And the idea is to trust God first friend. FREE WILL= Completely up to you

“No offense, but I think that’s slightly foolish thinking. Just because so many people believe it, that does not make it true.This is very little evidence for or against christianity. Until something definite arises, I will keep my mind open to to the possibilities of both it’s existance and it’s non-existance.”

The last time something definite happened there was a flood. Meaning, not good news for non believers. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah I’m sure were for something tangible also. Its not about anything earthly. You must think in deeper concepts.

“Connections? You must remeber, the stories described in the bible traveled far and wide from person to person for a long time before being written down.It shouldn’t seem so surprising that it can be found in more than one place.”

That is exactly what I am saying. Thank you. I have extracted connections from ancient Mayan Sumerian Essein Muslim Jewish Celtic Greek… Must I continue? I am the opposite of a “Bible Thumper”. As a matter of fact the Bible was the last scripture that I read before becoming a Christian. Simply, because I knew it was the most artificial.

“Key Word: FAITH”

Faith is something that I have trouble with.

It seems to me to be the act of throwing whatever you don’t agree with out the door, which is something that I am against.

It should all be taken into consideration.

“How do you know sir? You telling me that I cannot push fact and I haven’t was feeding into the whole idea. I was simply trying to advocate. This statement is simply evidence of lack of research.”

I am once more having difficulty understanding your writing, and it isn’t just me; your grammar seems a tad off the mark.

How is my asking you not to push a sign of lack of research?

“I am not trying to impress anyone. I look for no gratitude from any human. I have given you my message. And I am very humble don’t categorize me with the evangelists. For Jibrael’s beliefs are very different.”

And yet you believe that it is to be pushed non-believers?

That was how your previous statement seemed to read, but I now can’t be sure as you continue to speak cryptically and contradict yourself.

JibrealTrumpet wrote: “I think that if there was a “Bible Type II” reprinted today it would be much different then what was given to the farmers, fishers, and warriors of the past. You must always keep this in mind. The bible is not the only word of god don’t let other sinners tell you this to be true.”

The Bible claims to be the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

And in response to: “I believe that Children of God’s understanding of the world is far greater now. So you all should know that the evangelistic belief that the bible should be taken literally is most likely foolish. Ask yourself: How far were we in science and technology when the bible was printed? Exactly. Why wouldn’t God give us these sciences? Because then it wouldn’t be a test of faith.”

I think that the Bible is to be taken literally and that it is even more aplicable today then it was 1500 years ago. The Bible makes technology statements that only make sense in light of discoveries made in the las 100 years.
References in the text that refer to Bio-tech, nuclear weapons, a ten dimensional space time continuum and the destrucion of 1/3 the earth’s population are just a few.

The Koran was writen by a Isrialite priest and a Christian scribe for an illiterate desert nomad. They left their fingerprints all over it but made sure that any compotent scholar would be able to tell the diference between Jesus Christ of the Bible and the the Jesus talked about in the Koran. They are two copletely different people.

Absoluteliquid:

The bible is not the word of god not a book in the bible was written by Christ. Remember that sinners wrote the Bible before you use it as you front line of Christian defense. You must have an angle. To many popes have had their hands on it. Along with it being compiled by Constantine. We must open our eyes. Do not be blind brother. No where in the bible does it say “Nuclear, Space Travel, or Hand Gun”. So the bible cannot be taken literally that is what will make you a sheep of the wrong flock. Interpretation can be take any way. If it was literal 1/4 of the population was killed when Cain killed Abel. They possibly could have been single celled organisms the possibilities are limitless.

Agreeing with JT here.

And perhaps some one could please retranslate the book of Revelations so one could figure out what the heck it means??

My angle is that the Bible is the unadulterated word of my God and that any changes in it are only in form, not in content. It is the most published book in existence many times over. I believe that is is infallible. I see how you can claim that my eyes might be closed with such a view but I reached this standpoint only after many years of researching and inner exploration.

As for Revelation you will understand it much batter if you read every other book in the Bible.

Yes, the bible was physically written down by men, but these were true men of Christ. However, it is all under the divine inspiration of God. How else would dozens of books written at different times fit together so seamlessly?

JT, what’s your beef with the Roman Catholics? Yes, they have done some terrible things as a group, but they were for a long time the only Christian church. So it just stands to reason that they’d have their hands on it for a long time. It doesn’t necessarily make it less credible. I agree with absoluteliquid in that the bible has been changed only in form and structure, not content.

The Gospel still remains apparent, the stories of Moses still remain intact. If all you get out the Bible is that Christ has saved us all from our own undoing, that’s fine, you have got an eternity to figure out the rest.

“they have done some terrible things as a group, but they were for a long time the only Christian church.”

My points exactly Key word Rome. Point made. Do not give what is holy to the dogs.
They knew they were the only Christian church so like humans would they took advantage of it. Maybe some popes were good. But DEFINITELY not all. Bad Pope=Text Alteration.
Why else would there be secrets kept about Christ from the believers other then self gain? (Secrets openly admitted by the way). Be serious. Be logical. Not blind.

-10 Percent huh? God does not care about your earthly items.
-Baptism of children before they can speak? (You must except Christ as your savior in words by the way)
-Idolization of Pope (Infallible=Sinless) I think not
-Idolization of Mary.

Romans killed him. Then they headed his church.. Kinda Fishy..

I have no quarrels with the catholic church. Went to a catholic church until I was about 10. But they have started a process that they do not want to play out because it will only lead to their demise.

My Messiah is Christ. I need only to confess to him. No human can “Confirm” my faith.

“but these were true men of Christ”

And you know this because you met them? Everyone is a man of Christ friend. That does not mean they are without sin and temptation.

It’s all a little contradictory is all I’m saying. My faith is my own not to be directed by anyone but me.

Romans killed Him, and his disciples headed His Church. Check your history. The name doesn’t necessarily equate to the Roman Empire of Christ’s day, which is vastly different then the Rome adjacent to the Vatican in present time.

10 percent? Are you referring to the command to tithe? That’s not just a catholic thing. It’s part of living a Christian life, and while even I don’t remember to tithe every week, I know it’s important in order to support local churches and outreaches. To tithe, you don’t even have to give it to your church. If you don’t feel comfortable, go donate it somewhere else. The key is to support your community, and your poor through tithing. “When you give to the poor you are lending to the Lord and He shall surely repay you – Proverbs.”

I too don’t agree with Baptism before the baby is entirely sentient. However, they are so quick because they don’t want to risk their children to hell fire. They forget that belief in Christ is what saves you in the eyes of God, and that baptism (which is commanded of the disciples) is a ceremony before men, showing your dedication to your faith.

I agree with both of your claims about the Pope being infallible because God supposedly works only through him and the priests, and about Mary being almost at Goddess level. Mary is said to be the most blessed among women, but to pray TO her and other saints is a bit far stepping into polytheism.

Regardless, the Catholics are still a valid faith as they do place their salvation in the death and blood of Christ being over our sins. You can’t condemn the Catholics of today for the deeds of their ancestors yesterday.

Wow, off topic. Oh well, this whole forum seems off topic anyway. XD

“However, they are so quick because they don’t want to risk their children to hell fire.”

Since when is it the parents choice whether or not their child will be subject to hell fire. Maybe you did not get the memo.. GOD is GOD
Early Birth does not wash away their sins of the future.

“The name doesn’t necessarily equate to the Roman Empire of Christ’s day”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic
Yes it does check your history.

“Romans killed Him, and his disciples headed His Church.”

PAUL headed the church and the disciples “DISCIPLED”.
By the way, Paul was a tyrant before God blessed him with the ability to become a disciple.

“To tithe, you don’t even have to give it to your church. If you don’t feel comfortable, go donate it somewhere else.”

Catholic scripture states you must tithe to the church. What scripture are you reading?
And other churches adopted tithing from the catholics simply because they knew no different.
But I do.
Tithing was formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787.
READ YOUR HISTORY
“that baptism (which is commanded of the disciples) is a ceremony before men, showing your dedication to your faith.”

Not to be anti-social but, I need only to show my faith to God. And since when did God say we follow the COMMAND of disciples?

“You can’t condemn the Catholics of today for the deeds of their ancestors yesterday.”

They continue their idolatrous traditions even up to today. I mean. I dont blame them for the crusades. Because I have my own beliefs on how that went down.

I do not judge them. I state fact. You can take it how you want. But they condemn themselves by how harshly they judge outsiders.

On Topic: Why stop with the Bible?

I would turn it around. I stop AT the Bible. It is the ultimate “yardstick” so to speak. I say take your faith and fly with it. Learn and live as much as possible. Take this journey called life and experience as much as you can. Live every moment to the fullest. Slow down. Listen to the music. Learn about fractals. And use the Bible to determine if what you discover is ok with God.

Absoluteliquid: I agree. The last scripture I read in finding my faith was the Bible. Always keeping in mind Christ is my Messiah.

Well, the catholics have all those “naughty books” in their bible that are not in the bibles of most (or any?) protestant faiths.

The Romans that iced Jesus are different from the later ones. Christians, once scourged by the empire, were somehow able to convert the entire society to their faith. I’m not defending them in any way. They used the same heavy hand that the pagan empire did. Not many people realize that the Roman Empire actually still exists. They did change the name to “The Holy Roman Empire”. (they probably still call it that in the backrooms of the Vatican).

AL, I have read every book in the bible a dozen times or more. I still think Revelation is a crock and was written by folks that found heavy drugs before the rest of the world did. But perhaps you could enlighten me further in that other thread. I’m willing to listen even though I pre-judge it here.

The dozens of books in the bible don’t seem seamless to me.

I do condemn the catholics of today for the past actions of their church. They shouldn’t even associate themselves with the ancestors of the people who did all those terrible terrible things. If you must join a church, I say join a protestant one (or form your own as JT plans to do). Protestants, at least, have a little less blood on their hands. According to most christians, acceptance of christ as your savior and a few other minor obligations is all you have to do to become one (a christian). Why join or be born into organization with such a sickly and disgusting past? I would not want to associate with a group of people that did things like that even if it was hundreds or thousands of years ago. That blood is still on their hands, it won’t go away, and the deeds committed were unforgivable. If there is such a place as heaven, I think a few of the popes will come up missing when you get there.

So there. Discussions on catholicism always get me in a pissy mood.

I often wonder if anyone, and by that I mean people who are proud of their “blind faith”, has bothered to look into hard archeological evidence that might counter the mythos of one book/religion…? There have been many manuscripts from the time period in question, some of them from sources actually closer to the “source” of all this (in the person of the legendary Jesus himself) than some people like Saul of Tarsis (that’s St. Paul for you non-historians) who lived almost a hundred years later. What happens when the actual evidence states other than on prettily manufactured fairytale? Do you re-write the myth? Or do you continue to follow blindly?

Most of the time archeology doesn’t counter faith at all, and St. Paul isn’t our messiah Jesus is.. Every testament after that fact is a perk..

“I often wonder if anyone, and by that I mean people who are proud of their “blind faith””

It isn’t pride that drives us.. It’s that fact that our messiah told us there would be people who share your same views that would also taunt and persecute us as believers. That’s what fuels the flame of Christianity. Struggle and the misinterpretation of believers and non-believers who’s opinion on another’s belief really does not matter for much of anything. Only mad that they have no where to bestow their faith other then monkeys.

If you are faithless.. You are a walking corpse.. And God says do not consult those who consult the dead.

Simply another person with lack of research and no faith to match.. Predictable.. haha..

I like how you can say people without faith are walking corpses but chistians seem to be the one who hate living so much. All this talk of an afterlife you can’t even prove. Too bad you wont have any consciousness left to be blown when you die and it ends there.

If it ends there then commend me for taking a leap of faith you were to scared to take.. to scared to be let down when it was time to close you eyes forever..

You “Stable Need for Proof” is fear of failure or let down.. I fear nothing in this body.. In this realm.

no my stable need for proof is my open mind and curiosity which you seem to completely discredit. Why should i believe something because you or some ignorant evangelical or even a Buddhist monk says when all you have to go on is “oh well i just feel it in my heart!”

I’m no evangelist if you or any other close minded monkey bafoon would have read my threads without categorizing me would have seen that I clearly stated that..

Simply another lack of research.. Haha

Human need for proof is what closes the mind.. Your statements a contradictory..

I didn’t call you an evangelist. Read what I wrote better. How is human need for proof a closed mind? That makes no sense what so ever.

“you or some ignorant evangelical”

No comparison.. Write better..

or a buddhist…was the rest of the sentence. I used 3 different things. You should work for fox news man. Using whatever part of a debate you feel like to prove yr point, terribly. Nice.